Podcast "Wegebedarf" at SIP Scootershop - Digitisation
At the age of 22, Ulrich Zimmermann took over his parents' wholesale business, tripled the company's turnover and quickly introduced the one-day week for himself. Winner of several awards, including the "StrategiePreis" (Strategy Award) and the "Innovativer Mittelstand" (Innovative Medium-Sized Businesses) prize, he has worked as a management consultant more than 5,000 times over the past 20 years to identify and support companies' "WegeBedarf" (Way Needs).
Ulrich is the publisher of the entrepreneur podcast "Weggebedarf" in which, as a "Best Buddy", he would like to accompany interested parties on the path to personal and entrepreneurial freedom. His motto: more time, more fun, more money - easier, more human, more sustainable".
In episode #058, he visited us at SIP Scootershop and spoke with Ralf Jodl, co-founder and managing director, about the topic "The challenge of digitalisation in a fast-growing company".
From the garage to the world market leader for Vespa & scooters
500.000 customers worldwide, 50,000 articles in the online shop, 100 employees... a gigantic success story with a lot of road to travel. A real "from garage to world market leader" story. When Ralf and Alex bought their first Vespas, they just wanted to be cooler than the others and make their Vespas a bit faster and prettier. Many others probably wanted that too. Those who create value will reap success. In this interview, we look specifically at the challenges of digitalisation and also the consequences of two nasty cyber attacks. What did Ralf and Alex have to think about, what hurdles did they have to overcome, how did they manage the growth to digital?
You can listen to episode #058 "The challenge of digitalisation in a fast-growing company" here. If you liked the podcast, feel free to share it, subscribe to Ulrich's channel and contact the editor directly in case of a personal "path need".
Have fun listening:
Ulrich Zimmermann: It smells like fresh espresso. Pictures of young people and also older ones on scooters, on Vespas, are running everywhere on the screens and screens, riding alone and in groups and having fun somewhere in the south with sunshine and back and forth with lots of fun. And to run a business like that and from a niche, a mini niche, a garage where you - where Ralf Jodl himself screwed on his Vespa, to become the undisputed market leader in this niche, with over 500,000 customers worldwide and well over 50,000 items in his online shop. And that's why today we're talking to Ralf Jodl, the co-founder of SIP Scootershop, about the challenges that the digitalisation of his business has brought for him as an entrepreneur. Welcome to the podcast today. Welcome, Ralf Jodl.
RalfJodl: Thank you very much for the flowery introductory words.
Ulrich Zimmermann: Yes, it is always better to introduce someone. (One is much too modest oneself and doesn't like to tell? 02:02).
Ralf Jodl: Thank you for the invitation. Thank you!
Ulrich Zimmermann: We are actually sitting here in the Flagship Store in Landsberg and it is just as you would imagine. I mean, the pretty Italian girls are missing, but apart from that, everything looks like you would imagine it to be in terms of Vespa and scooters and replacement parts and helmets. So just to give you, the listeners, a setting. It smells like espresso. There's that Italian flair everywhere that you associate with riding a scooter and spring and departure and planes in your belly. A cool, emotional business model. But today we're not talking about emotions, but about digitalisation. And becoming the world market leader in 20 years is not that easy. When did you get the idea of wanting to become so big?
Ralf Jodl: Well, big is relative. We are the world market leader in a very small niche in the two-wheeler sector. Maybe you have to say that now you have the right idea where we are.
Ulrich Zimmermann: But world market leader in a niche is cool. Was the idea to boost it as big as it is now?
Ralf Jodl: We started in 1994, so even when you talk about digitalisation, of course it was a very different time, a very, very different time.
Ulrich Zimmermann: A very different time.
RalfJodl: And it didn't come about as a business model, where you first developed a business model and then implemented it, but it actually came about out of a passion and a hobby. I bought my first Vespa when I was 16. So did Alexander Barth, my partner, with whom I've been doing this together from the very beginning. And the Vespa was booming in our region back then. The school car park was full of two-wheelers
Ulrich Zimmermann: That was just cool.
Ralf Jodl: Exactly. All the cool ones had a Vespa. There were a few who weren't so cool from our point of view, they had some KTM or some moped. But the cool ones actually had a Vespa, because the Vespa was much more than just this means of transport from A to B, it was clothing, it was music, it was a subculture. There was a lot that went along with it. That's worth a podcast of its own to tell the story.
Ulrich Zimmermann: Yes, that's true.
Ralf Jodl: But there were many good reasons to buy a Vespa back then. And that was very attractive. But there were spare parts problems. There was the scooter shop in Augsburg. That was actually the dominant one, but it fell asleep a bit on the, let's say, product range, on the existing one, it didn't have a real competitor. If you don't have a real competitor, you get tired or sleepy. But then - there were already new products in Italy that were more interesting, more exciting, bigger exhaust systems in England, and that's when we started, so to speak. We started to organise and get them for ourselves, for friends. And then, little by little, that slipped into a business, without wanting to, besides school and studies, so to speak
Ulrich Zimmermann: Suddenly you have a scooter shop.
Ralf Jodl: Yes, it has remained a hobby, even all the parts. For us it's still like that, it's still like that today, when a delivery of goods arrives downstairs with some new product of our own, then everyone runs down there, word gets around, "Hey, the new rims are here!", and then suddenly you see them all again, then you meet downstairs and opening up is like Christmas.
Ulrich Zimmermann: Unboxing.
Ralf Jodl: Unboxing, exactly.
Ulrich Zimmermann: Exactly, you could spend hours raving about it. I can understand that directly. It's simple - such a beautifully emotional business is really cool, and now you've decided at some point to go digital. Now we have from our listeners - they are all normal SMEs, somehow one-man shows up to 50, 100, 200 people, so very normal people who are very down-to-earth. What do you actually understand by digitalisation before we look at what you have done? Because there's always this buzzword - you ask ten people about digitalisation and you get 15 opinions. What is digitalisation for you?
Ralf Jodl: For us, it's actually mapping processes in electronic form. That would be my layman's explanation of digitisation. And that's just how we experience it. More and more things that used to take place in paper form are becoming digital. So, of course, the most stupid thing is that we had fax orders in the beginning, but that doesn't exist any more.
Ulrich Zimmermann: No.
Ralf Jodl: Or we had postcards. And we really did have order cards in catalogues, then people filled out the postcard, stuck a stamp on it and sent it to us. We typed the order back in and sent it out. But that hasn't happened for ten years, as far as I can tell.
Ulrich Zimmermann: Now it's done via the online shop. How did you start? Or to put it the other way round, what were the basic considerations - you are now actually worldwide with a gigantic bearing, with an online shop, with 55,000 products, with - in principle you have everything online, with huge digitalisation around these emotional products - what were the basic considerations when you started to deal with the topic of digitalisation quite systematically?
WegeBedarf, the podcast. Tracing.
Ralf Jodl: Well, that was actually a very early topic for us, because we serve a niche. And a niche means that the Landsberg district does not reach far in terms of customers. That's fine for a workshop, for a local one. But for us, the idea has always been that we want to be a bit more than a local scooter workshop. Which doesn't mean that a local scooter workshop is bad, but for us the idea has always been that we want to produce our own products and we want to trade. And the district is just a bit small. And we started in an old barracks in Landsberg. There used to be, I think, five barracks in Landsberg and at the very time in the early 90s when we started, the barracks were all closed and there were large open spaces. The city actually had more of a problem back then, because it had to buy them, I think, more or less, and had a lot of free space where nobody really knew what to do with it. So it was also something you can't imagine today, because today there is no space at all for start-ups or for new businesses. And we had one and there were about 100 companies in the barracks that had started up at that time. Among them was a company that made the internet. That was one of those things in 1994 when people didn't really know what it was
Ulrich Zimmermann: They were ahead of the game.
Ralf Jodl: - this internet. And then they reserved our domain for us, this www.sip-scootershop.com domain, and set up our first site. We also had an employee who really got stuck into it. So I think we had our first online shop in 1995.
Ulrich Zimmermann: Quite well. I mean, that was also very early.
Ralf Jodl: This was still very simple. I also know that back then you still dialled into the Internet with a modem.
Ulrich Zimmermann: Those squeaky "Düdüdü".
Ralf Jodl: Yes, yes, exactly.
Ulrich Zimmermann: So it was very early on.
Ralf Jodl: Then came the T-Online screen and then we were online and then we picked up our e-mails very quickly, because then we had to switch off again quickly, because it was expensive.
Ulrich Zimmermann: It was expensive. So you were Internet users from the very beginning, so to speak. That's cool.
Ralf Jodl: Simply to reach customers in Hong Kong, England and France. That was a bit of the basic idea. Of course it works via magazines. So there were other possibilities, but also via a website and via e-mail contact and the Internet.
Ulrich Zimmermann: And then it continued, because something like that doesn't stand still. At some point, like now with your big new building here in the flagship store with a huge bearing at the back, you have to start thinking about the basic principles again. What were the broad approaches where you said that we have to consider all this in digitalisation?
Ralf Jodl: Well, there is no point now where we say, "Starting today, we'll do -" or "Starting tomorrow, everything will be digital that was previously done on paper I think it's the case that you always -
Ulrich Zimmermann: An ongoing process.
Ralf Jodl: An ongoing process that, I believe, never really stops and that probably starts fastest where it hurts the most
Ulrich Zimmermann: Where did it hurt the most?
Ralf Jodl: Well, when we moved into the new building in 2016, we had to change a lot of logistics processes, and we realised that it hurts us that every order picker still walks through the bearing with a printed order picking slip.
Ulrich Zimmermann: Of course.
Ralf Jodl: There was also the fact that we now had more zones in the bearing, which was no longer possible. And then we had to think about how we could digitise the process In other words, we didn't want the picking process to be triggered by printing out a picking slip and having someone run out and check things off and put them in a box. We had to come up with something new. We looked at many companies. We looked at 20 companies before we decided on the logistics process for us.
Ulrich Zimmermann: 20? Wow.
Ralf Jodl: So all sectors. And - so we were at a game stop in Memmingen, we were at Musikhaus Thomann in - somewhere in Franconia, I think they are. But we were also at a relatively direct competitor, Louis Motorrad in Hamburg. So we were on the road quite a lot and looked at a lot of things. We never got a rejection. That's actually a great entrepreneurial culture here.
Ulrich Zimmermann: That's great.
Ralf Jodl: We were invited by every company. "Sure you can come, have a look." And of course we took something for ourselves everywhere. So everyone has a different picking strategy. Multi-level, single-level. There are many different concepts. Some only have one pick, so they only have one item per delivery. We have about 18 items per package. So of course everyone has a bit different requirements, but for us it was important, we have five picking zones, they have to be married at some point. So picking should start in all zones at the same time. Then it has to be married at one point in order to get to a packing station, which then packs these 18 parts on average into one package.
Ulrich Zimmermann: That is time-consuming.
Ralf Jodl: And that's where paper reaches its limits. And for this we have built a solution with iPods. So we have a principle where every order picker has a kind of iPod with a scanner attachment and is shown on the display where he has to go next, which compartment he has to reach into and which box he has to put what he takes out of the compartment into. And then he has some additional information with the car and so on, but he gets all that controlled via the iPod.
Ulrich Zimmermann: Logistically well coordinated, short distances.
Ralf Jodl: But it was just such a process that -
Ulrich Zimmermann: You have to think a lot.
Ralf Jodl: Yes, you also have to think a lot. We had a lot of pain and had to find a solution. And then such a process was digitalised.
Ulrich Zimmermann: Now you said in the preparation that you had also thought of other things. Maybe we'll incorporate them at this point, because one pain point was, for example, the issue of "How can we optimise logistics? What were the other pain points?
WegeBedarf, the podcast. On and on.
Ralf Jodl: Another pain point is the issue of IT security.
Ulrich Zimmermann: Important point.
Ralf Jodl: Sure, of course we have databases and customer data. For example, we don't have any credit card data stored here now. That hasn't existed for a long time. So it's no longer up to date, it's outsourced. We only work with tokens. So we no longer have any payment data here in house. That's also good, because then we don't have to worry about the security of this data.
Ulrich Zimmermann: Definitely.
Ralf Jodl: But we have had the case of crypto Trojans. It's always in the media. For us it was about three years ago, we had it twice in a row. It's like a child who reaches for the hotplate, gets burnt, but can't get enough of it.
Ulrich Zimmermann: And keeps reaching for it, okay.
Ralf Jodl: And then we actually tackled it. Data backups. Also really with transparency, did my data backup really run last night? I want to see that every day now.
Ulrich Zimmermann: And is it also what we would like it to be?
Ralf Jodl: Because it is simply important, the topic. And yes, of course you can also - you have to find a balance between effort and result. Of course, you can do penetration tests. You could have hackers try to get in. Of course, at some point you have to say, well, now we think we have it more or less under control.
Ulrich Zimmermann: Yes, many entrepreneurial colleagues - I would also include myself in this - "Yes, come on, it'll be fine, nothing will happen. What does anyone want with my data? It's always worked out well
Ralf Jodl: Yes, you have that at the latest when suddenly entire directories are encrypted and the Bitcoin address from Ukraine is everywhere. Then, at the latest, you naturally think a bit differently, a lot of work is lost - so a lot of work was lost for us at the time. That was extremely annoying. But fortunately, the business model itself did not run into problems, i.e. everyday life. But it could have been different.
Ulrich Zimmermann: I mean, that's one of the points, because hopefully many people listen to the podcast and say, "I'm also such a supplanter, it'll be fine," until the moment comes when the ransom demand of 15, 20, 50,000 euros is on the table, so to speak, or your business just doesn't work anymore. These are things that you can't really suppress. So if your livelihood depends on it - and the podcast is about entrepreneurial freedom, among other things - that would be extremely endangered. How many kilometres of wire have you laid here?
Ralf Jodl: At least ten kilometres of fibre optic and network cables.
Ulrich Zimmermann: Another aspect, which you just mentioned, is the issue of DSGVO suspicion or clean legal processing, how do you do that exactly?
Ralf Jodl: Exactly, the General Data Protection Regulation is also a topic that is constantly buzzing through the media and affects almost everyone, because who doesn't have a website, who doesn't have customer data? These are all topics that affect everyone. Is the cookie consent still correct when accepting? Is the hook allowed to be set, is it not allowed to be set? A thousand topics, third-party providers, IP addresses, anonymised on an American server or on the European server, it all makes a difference, it all has to be listed in the privacy policy. It's actually no longer possible - now for a small company without a legal department - to map it without external help.
Ulrich Zimmermann: That would also be a good transition to the next question. It all sounds very complex and the podcast is actually meant to encourage you to say, "Just start now," because that's important. And there is always the decision between what I do myself and what I buy externally. Where do you differentiate between - in New High German, make or buy - what do you do yourself and what do you buy in?
Ralf Jodl: Well, maybe we have to take a step back - this topic is of course complicated. It's also very complicated for us because we are completely web-based. I would say that a founder who uses a standard shop has it a bit easier, because the standard shop already solves a lot of things. It already offers the right cookie consent and maybe even a data protection statement. So you can make it a bit more standardised and simplified. That's not possible for us, because we do a lot of things by hand and manually. But then there is an IT law firm in Munich - that is, simply an IT lawyer who has to be brought in, who provides the external data protection officer, who draws up all these procedure directories, i.e. everything that is internal, when does a customer have the right to have his customer data deleted? There is such a thing, the right. The customer can call and say, "Please delete all my data" But there is also a retention obligation, ten years, that stands in the way and then it has to be weighed up, what do I have to delete now? What do I have to anonymise in some form? But what do I still have to keep for the next audit? And then you need a procedural directory, which a lawyer actually has to draw up. So I don't think a layman can do it in such a way that it is audit-proof in the end.
Ulrich Zimmermann: So you have already outsourced the topic of legal security. What else have you outsourced?
Ralf Jodl: Well, the IT itself is now outsourced. So when a new workstation has to be set up here, we have a service provider who sets it up and does it for us. They also log us off again, switch off the email address, so to speak, and dismantle everything again when the employee leaves. So these are all issues, you can't just leave it all there, just like that, these are also digital processes that have to be carried out to the end, so to speak.
Ulrich Zimmermann: The idea behind this is, of course, to sell these scooter parts worldwide, which has nothing to do with your core business. How much know-how do you have to acquire internally in order to do all that? Then it's better to buy in. What were the main hurdles on the way to a web-based, digital world worldwide?
WegeBedarf, the podcast. A word.
Ralf Jodl: Well, I wouldn't call it hurdles, but rather opportunities.
Ulrich Zimmermann: Okay, good.
Ralf Jodl: Because our business model, I would say, is a real niche market - and there are many niches, many business models, even here in our industrial area
Ulrich Zimmermann: Quite a few, yes.
Ralf Jodl: There are quite a few here, shisha pipe mail order for example, all kinds of things, they are all very small niche markets and they only work supra-regionally. And the chance that we can be so active on a supra-regional level has only come about through digitalisation and online presence and all the possibilities of marketing via YouTube, social networks and so on. So these are actually the opportunities that make the business model possible.
Ulrich Zimmermann: That's why we also recommend everyone to think about which business areas are worth digitising and which ones should be left on site? But as a rule, you really have to look for the opportunities. But there are also difficulties on the way to the digital world. What has come up?
Ralf Jodl: Well, this issue of IT security is simply, I think -
Ulrich Zimmermann: Security, that was simple -
Ralf Jodl: It's a topic that hovers over everything all the time. Quite honestly, you are never one hundred percent sure, are you completely watertight? You probably never are. I believe that if someone tries to break the law, he will always get into the network somehow.
Ulrich Zimmermann: And that is a matter for the boss?
Ralf Jodl: It must be a matter for the boss, yes. Because data is simply vital.
Ulrich Zimmermann: If there's trouble, it's immediately lethal. You are very active in social media. That is also part of the digital world. And there you have - you play on all channels. Who is doing that?
Ralf Jodl: Yes, it's a kind of interplay. We have a photo studio in the house, which means that content is created there. So a social network means I need content for it. I have to deliver something authentic so that someone consumes it and looks at it. That's how the social network is created. And content is of course created in-house. So before you came, we just got a new speedometer, a new in-house product, a speedometer that goes up to 160 km/h. The standard Vespa speedometer is not a speedometer. The standard Vespa speedometer only goes up to 120 km/h. It looks great. It's a beautiful product of our own, it's just arrived and we've just shot a story for Instagram. I did that with my mobile phone. We filmed briefly how the speedometer is unpacked, how it is connected, how it is installed, how it is clicked on, how the light from the headlight unit comes on, on the speedometer, and we just drove around the building. I sat in the back, our technician drove and I filmed the speedometer, and when we're done I'll edit an Instagram story from it in ten minutes.
Ulrich Zimmermann: And you do that yourself?
Ralf Jodl: I do that myself now, I just enjoy it. That fits. I'm also responsible for marketing and sales, and you could almost say that I do that on the side. But of course there are also more elaborate productions. For example, when we build a scooter this summer, a beautiful rally with lots of parts, lots of our own products, lots of customisation. And then there's a big photo shoot, of course, and you make videos about it. That's a bit of a more elaborate marketing appearance, which is then also played out in social networks. And that's probably also a mix that I think - for us it's a great fit. I think it suits a lot of people. Creating a mixture of professional content, in the photo studio or with professional technology. And in between, but also in a shirt-sleeved way, simply, "We're going to go live now" There are just 50 guys from England, totally packed, with their Lambrettas and Vespas on the farm, mobile phone on, just going live, they all think that's great. A guy from Tokyo thinks it's great too. He thinks to himself, "Wait a minute, what's going on?" and just joins in. So I think you just have to take these opportunities with you. And even if it's shaky.
Ulrich Zimmermann: I think that's also a good point, to say that you don't have to be afraid of it.
Ralf Jodl: Not at all.
Ulrich Zimmermann: That's the part of digitalisation where the entrepreneur's lifeblood - I mean, these are your products, this is your thing. Why shouldn't you turn on a mobile phone and show how enthusiastic you are about it? And you hear it from a lot of niches and other companies as well, which could spread, that's a message along the lines of, "Just do it! Whether it shakes or not." But you'll never get the live situations the same way again, you can't hand that over, you have to put your heart and soul into it.
Ralf Jodl: I think that makes the channel authentic. So it's not a glossy brochure as a social network, but it's exactly this mixture where people say, "Hey cool, I'll subscribe to that, I'm interested in that too
Ulrich Zimmermann: They're cool people, they've got it somehow. The topic is horny people, community. You live essentially from the fact that you have - how many followers worldwide? With 500,000 customers, there must be even more who somehow share the fascination of riding a scooter with you. And when you look at the videos and hundreds of scooters speed past you, and somehow they're all having fun and making wild gestures, how do you get them to join in with your rides, with your - that they're just there?
Ralf Jodl: Well, social networks mean "sending". So we make content and distribute it. There is usually enough content. Now with the pandemic, there are of course a little less events, real analogue events. So, of course, it has been another aspect - perhaps another aspect - to do more digitally via the social networks. I think there were also virtual meetings, but of course none of that is a real substitute. But all the same.
Ulrich Zimmermann: Yes, of course.
Ralf Jodl: But we are not only sending, we are also receiving. So there is actually content from a lot of private people. And that is also totally exciting for us to record. The Vespa meeting in Indonesia with 10,000 scooter riders driving somewhere through the middle of Jakarta on Sunday, blocking all the roads, everything -
Ulrich Zimmermann: For kilometres.
Ralf Jodl: Unbelievable numbers of people. And of course we love to consume that. That's what we find exciting.
Ulrich Zimmermann: And they deliberately send it to you? You don't have to get it somewhere, but it is sent to you?
Ralf Jodl: No, it works a bit differently. Social networks work like this, people simply upload it, but then there are the hashtags. So there is this hashtag #sipscootershop and then they add it. And that's how we see it, via the subscription function of the hashtag.
Ulrich Zimmermann: That's cool! These are all little - what do you call them? - Life hacks, according to the motto, how do you do it with little effort and a lot of effect? That's what's important for the listeners, to say that you can do one or two things externally with relatively good tools. What you are passionate about and enjoy doing, you do internally. That sounds good. With a view to the time we have at the end of our half hour, if you were to give entrepreneurs, preferably niche entrepreneurs, classic SMEs like us, three tips, where and how should they best start?
WegeBedarf, the podcast. Your goal.
Ralf Jodl: Well, there are many aspects of digitalisation: What do I have to digitalise in my internal processes, in my business processes, so that I am not overwhelmed with mountains of paper every day? That is one example, the order picking strategy. But of course we still have a lot of open points. Bookkeeping, we still have a lot of folders and a lot of paper, I would definitely like to get rid of that. But social networking is, I think, a good opportunity for almost everyone to win customers, to retain customers, to stay in some kind of constant communication with the customer. But with such a pleasantly indirect one - they can look at it, but they don't have to. And I think you have to find a way to do it professionally How many customers do I address? Which network is the right one for me? That changes all the time. It started 15 years ago with MySpace. I don't think it exists any more. Facebook is now also the parents' network, the uncool ones, where the children don't want to be, because the uncool parents are there now.
Ulrich Zimmermann: So embarrassing.
Ralf Jodl: Exactly. I think Instagram is already halfway in that direction. Then there's TikTok. There's always something new coming up. So you have to think about whether TikTok is more for teenagers. If I now have a locksmith's shop, a metal construction company, maybe I don't need to be on TikTok. Or I do, because maybe I'll look for my apprentice there, my next one. So you also have to think about what do I want? Who am I looking for?
Ulrich Zimmermann: Who do I want to address?
Ralf Jodl: Who do I want to address? Which network is the right one for that? But you can, I think - you have to talk to the children, then I think you'll find out quickly, because they are always active, actually.
Ulrich Zimmermann: Tip three would be?
Ralf Jodl: Tip three, of course, is the topic of IT security.
Ulrich Zimmermann: Security?
RalfJodl: Security. It concerns everyone - so it was also a topic for us, of course, you do a bit of work, and of course you have a firewall and you back up your data. But if you get caught and the data is encrypted - anyone can get caught because some employee opens an email, clicks on something, thinks nothing bad of it, thinks, "OK, that was nonsense", closes it again. But in the background, the thing starts encrypting the directories. And you just don't notice that. And maybe also to sensitise the employees a bit, not to click on everything, not to open everything, to install sensible firewalls. But I think the most important thing is to have good data backups and to check them regularly to make sure they are backing up what I need. Maybe that's even the number one tip, ahead of the other two?
Ulrich Zimmermann: On the subject of securing one's existence, definitely. On the subject of expansion and digitally boosting the niche worldwide, the other two were better. But that's on the subject of safety first. I think you put on your helmet first and then you drive off. So from that point of view it would also fit well. Then I say, Ralf, thank you very much for the exciting interview and I hope that we have many listeners to contribute to. And you said you went on a lot of tours, so if anyone wants to take a look at your logistics and the processes - you'll be able to do that
Ralf Jodl: Yes, yes, you can do that. We'd be happy to, just get in touch. That happens from time to time and of course we are just as happy to do it as we were to visit other places.
Ulrich Zimmermann: And of course the SIP Scootershop is also linked in the show notes, so that if anyone wants to take a careful look, you have a lot of videos on it and a lot of background information, which I think also gives good insights into how - especially your logistics video, how all the boxes go in and out. That's very impressive.
WegeBedarf, the BestBuddy Podcast for your personal entrepreneurial freedom.
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